foobar2001
09-08 08:58 PM
Thanks for your reply - but I looked at both email and they are exactly same except for approval date on them. that confused me :confused:
how long it's taking to get actual card in mail after getting production email/ status update?
yup - i got duplicate CPO emails as well - one on sep 1 and another on sep 2. The LUD date also changed from sep 1 to sep 2 after the 2 updates. Today i got the 485 approved email.
Dont have the GC in hand yet - looks like none of the folks who got current in Sep have received their GCs yet. Speaking to some folks who got current last month, it seems like most folks had GCs in hand within 10-15 days of the first status update regarding CPO.
how long it's taking to get actual card in mail after getting production email/ status update?
yup - i got duplicate CPO emails as well - one on sep 1 and another on sep 2. The LUD date also changed from sep 1 to sep 2 after the 2 updates. Today i got the 485 approved email.
Dont have the GC in hand yet - looks like none of the folks who got current in Sep have received their GCs yet. Speaking to some folks who got current last month, it seems like most folks had GCs in hand within 10-15 days of the first status update regarding CPO.
wallpaper Rangers southpaw Cliff Lee
aykife
10-03 10:10 AM
It is rather unfortunate that people on consular process track despite the fact that they have approved I-140, yet they couldn't be allocated visa while other people on adjustment process could file their I-485 when everybody PD became current. don't you think it is rather unfortunate.
Any hope for consular processing? with the situation.
Any hope for consular processing? with the situation.
gc28262
09-24 05:50 PM
Good Question. AC21 usage introduces a "Chicken Or Egg" situation. Our limitations 1) Till we interfile we have to show us fulfilling EB3 job calssification related obligations ( that also is a "future" postion in reality). Now if EB2 application is from "same employer" then that employer can logically produce the letter matching EB2 level experience after "real and natural skill progression" only to prove that you are fit for more advanced skill level job in other words after wait for 2-3 years.
Many of us could be over-qualified for our current EB3 position (after so many years of wait) and is accepting the current position only to strictly adhere to "same/similar" job classification. In that case employer can file a GC for our real qualification i.e. Eb2.
Many of us could be over-qualified for our current EB3 position (after so many years of wait) and is accepting the current position only to strictly adhere to "same/similar" job classification. In that case employer can file a GC for our real qualification i.e. Eb2.
2011 Cliff Lee turns the Yankees
RDB
11-25 04:52 PM
In principle, I agree with you that we are responsible for what we 'sign up' for and shouldn't back away from that. But, your example is a little bit off as in nobody is asking back money from the mortgage which is already paid (akin to the difference in gas prices that you mentioned), the interest rate could change and we are liable to pay the difference in the mortgage payments due that fluctuation - the thing here is the base value of your asset. As a hypothetical example (because vehicle prices always depreciate, so please ignore the reality), let's say you bought that Gas guzzling SUV at 50k and now suddenly after 2 years, due to whatever reason, you go and try to sell the same SUV to the same dealer and he quotes you 5k. Wouldn't you fault that dealer for selling you the same thing at 50k when the actual value of the same asset 2 year back was 5k (but he sold you at 50k and you have only paid back 10k in monthly installments until now). Who is to blame for that 35k deficit? You? Forget the monthly payments here and concentrate on the actual asset value.
As mentioned above, I do agree that we are liable for what we do in life and one has to stand up for his/her deeds - but at the same time, and I again argue the same point, that the greedy people on wall st. and lending institutions are largely responsible for this mess - imagine if they had never sold you the asset for 50k, which is a bloated amount for that particular asset and the sad part in this is that the lender lends out the money knowing all this.
Hmm interesting.
So if I buy a gas guzzling SUV/Truck and the price of it goes down to 1/4 because of soaring oil prices, I guess dealer should pay me back the 3/4 because it is not my fault. Right ?
And if I bought used Hybrid which is now selling like hot cakes and I make a profit I must redeem it to the car dealer. Because I made money I didn't anticipate. Also, my 401K losses should be returned back because it isn't my fault the stocks are loosing value. The price of gas I paid this summer was twice what I am paying now, so I must get back the money I spent this summer, because it is not my fault that there has been fluctuations in the oil prices.
Well, if only it were that simple. That's not how the system works, although you would want to be that. When you sign the dotted line you are in the binding contract and from then on profits, losses and fire sale is all yours.
You have to live up to what you have signed or next time around you signature will not be honored.
As mentioned above, I do agree that we are liable for what we do in life and one has to stand up for his/her deeds - but at the same time, and I again argue the same point, that the greedy people on wall st. and lending institutions are largely responsible for this mess - imagine if they had never sold you the asset for 50k, which is a bloated amount for that particular asset and the sad part in this is that the lender lends out the money knowing all this.
Hmm interesting.
So if I buy a gas guzzling SUV/Truck and the price of it goes down to 1/4 because of soaring oil prices, I guess dealer should pay me back the 3/4 because it is not my fault. Right ?
And if I bought used Hybrid which is now selling like hot cakes and I make a profit I must redeem it to the car dealer. Because I made money I didn't anticipate. Also, my 401K losses should be returned back because it isn't my fault the stocks are loosing value. The price of gas I paid this summer was twice what I am paying now, so I must get back the money I spent this summer, because it is not my fault that there has been fluctuations in the oil prices.
Well, if only it were that simple. That's not how the system works, although you would want to be that. When you sign the dotted line you are in the binding contract and from then on profits, losses and fire sale is all yours.
You have to live up to what you have signed or next time around you signature will not be honored.
more...
sri1309
08-21 07:39 AM
Guys,
I have once again sent 6 letters by mail to 6 members, but I would like to send to more by email. Can somebody please direct me to how to get those or if you have, please paste it here so that we can start sending emails also.
We must bump up our efforts as much as we can before the Oct bulletin comes out, but EB3 needs to do better. There is not much difference between the two categories when it comes to skill EB2 or EB3. As all of you know, the system is broken. There are Masters degree holders in both categories and experienced categores in both. Not long back we saw Eb3 doing better. This is not right guys,. Lets work together.
EB2 guys( those who do not want to support EB3)::
What will you do, in EB3 shoes, if the numbers are not moving in 2-3 months. You got it. MOst of them will change to EB2, right. I will too. I am sure you can imagine the scene then. I know 8 of my 15 friends have already jumped to EB2. And I am sure they have much higher priority date than most of EB2s there. So you know what to expect. Lets ALL support for the common cause.
Sri.
I have once again sent 6 letters by mail to 6 members, but I would like to send to more by email. Can somebody please direct me to how to get those or if you have, please paste it here so that we can start sending emails also.
We must bump up our efforts as much as we can before the Oct bulletin comes out, but EB3 needs to do better. There is not much difference between the two categories when it comes to skill EB2 or EB3. As all of you know, the system is broken. There are Masters degree holders in both categories and experienced categores in both. Not long back we saw Eb3 doing better. This is not right guys,. Lets work together.
EB2 guys( those who do not want to support EB3)::
What will you do, in EB3 shoes, if the numbers are not moving in 2-3 months. You got it. MOst of them will change to EB2, right. I will too. I am sure you can imagine the scene then. I know 8 of my 15 friends have already jumped to EB2. And I am sure they have much higher priority date than most of EB2s there. So you know what to expect. Lets ALL support for the common cause.
Sri.
sush
07-09 11:56 PM
SMITHA:
You said
"Do you think that by sending flower to USCIS will force them to make EB2/EB3 current for 2005/2006/2007 guys??"
My answer:
This is not about forcing USCIS into doing anything. The sole purpose of this is to bring awareness in mainstream media(and in doing so the american public) to the need of reform in american immigration system for skilled migrants. Immigration reform is not just reforming illegal immigration but this is one of our chances to put focus on legal employment-based immigration.
You also said
"My sincere request, please don't do rally, you might be arrested......you never know what they can do..... Don't you think that, it is better to go back to India rather than being embarrassed here in US???"
My answer:
Why should I be embarrassed about protesting how sheer incompenet USCIS/DOS decision making is on this visa bulletin fiasco? about how my tax dollars and my application fees are spent by these departments?
Infact for people to be coming out of thier little cubicles to protest on something they feel is injustice says something about how embarrassed the government bodies should be about thier failure in doing their job. I have no shame in expressing an injustice done to me.
You also said
"Exactly that is now 2006-2007 PD guys are expecting to happen a miracle, right? I mean, apply 485,EAD ASAP."
My answer:
My PD is Jan 2006(been living here since 99). When Visa bulletin became current, my only expectation from it is that my wife can start working on EAD. I don't think anyone who was planning to apply for 485/EAD/AP based on the old july bulletin realistically expected that they would get their greencard in few months. This outrage is only that USCIS/DOS couldn't keep their house clean in how to solve the unused visa numbers and insensitively moved the dates forward and then backward causing emotional strees and hole in our bank balances. They did us wrong and might do it again.
For your information
Smitha
EB2 India
PD-2005-May
I140 approved-Sept 2006
I have MS in EE from US and working since 2001,filed my GC in 2005 May(PERM).
However can you please tell me anyone who got GC in Eb2/Eb3(India) in 1-2 yr in the last 15 yrs?
Exactly that is now 2006-2007 PD guys are expecting to happen a miracle, right? I mean, apply 485,EAD ASAP.
If you guys really care about 2002-2003-2004 guys, then please please wait for OCT 07 bulletin and after that you can do anything you want. If they will retrogress the dates, then please fight but not before that.
This is just a suggestion. If you like follow it, otherwise ignore.
You said
"Do you think that by sending flower to USCIS will force them to make EB2/EB3 current for 2005/2006/2007 guys??"
My answer:
This is not about forcing USCIS into doing anything. The sole purpose of this is to bring awareness in mainstream media(and in doing so the american public) to the need of reform in american immigration system for skilled migrants. Immigration reform is not just reforming illegal immigration but this is one of our chances to put focus on legal employment-based immigration.
You also said
"My sincere request, please don't do rally, you might be arrested......you never know what they can do..... Don't you think that, it is better to go back to India rather than being embarrassed here in US???"
My answer:
Why should I be embarrassed about protesting how sheer incompenet USCIS/DOS decision making is on this visa bulletin fiasco? about how my tax dollars and my application fees are spent by these departments?
Infact for people to be coming out of thier little cubicles to protest on something they feel is injustice says something about how embarrassed the government bodies should be about thier failure in doing their job. I have no shame in expressing an injustice done to me.
You also said
"Exactly that is now 2006-2007 PD guys are expecting to happen a miracle, right? I mean, apply 485,EAD ASAP."
My answer:
My PD is Jan 2006(been living here since 99). When Visa bulletin became current, my only expectation from it is that my wife can start working on EAD. I don't think anyone who was planning to apply for 485/EAD/AP based on the old july bulletin realistically expected that they would get their greencard in few months. This outrage is only that USCIS/DOS couldn't keep their house clean in how to solve the unused visa numbers and insensitively moved the dates forward and then backward causing emotional strees and hole in our bank balances. They did us wrong and might do it again.
For your information
Smitha
EB2 India
PD-2005-May
I140 approved-Sept 2006
I have MS in EE from US and working since 2001,filed my GC in 2005 May(PERM).
However can you please tell me anyone who got GC in Eb2/Eb3(India) in 1-2 yr in the last 15 yrs?
Exactly that is now 2006-2007 PD guys are expecting to happen a miracle, right? I mean, apply 485,EAD ASAP.
If you guys really care about 2002-2003-2004 guys, then please please wait for OCT 07 bulletin and after that you can do anything you want. If they will retrogress the dates, then please fight but not before that.
This is just a suggestion. If you like follow it, otherwise ignore.
more...
singhv_1980
01-22 11:34 AM
worst case? yes.. it's mine..
My H1 revalidation appointment was on the 12-Dec. Visa was approved immediatly but haven't received the passport yet. I receive the same response when I call.. that its under PIMS verification. No ETA of when I can expect it to be done..
I had a H1 transfer to a new employer and 3 year extension happen at the same time. I am not sure what the problem is and what I can do. I am totally stressed out and really depressed ..
If someone has done something thats helped their case move along.. please PM me or reply to this post.. Thanks !
Dont be depressed buddy! I know its an aweful long time but hopefully soon things will turn good for you. You mentioned that it was a renewal case. When was your H1B issued initially?
My H1 revalidation appointment was on the 12-Dec. Visa was approved immediatly but haven't received the passport yet. I receive the same response when I call.. that its under PIMS verification. No ETA of when I can expect it to be done..
I had a H1 transfer to a new employer and 3 year extension happen at the same time. I am not sure what the problem is and what I can do. I am totally stressed out and really depressed ..
If someone has done something thats helped their case move along.. please PM me or reply to this post.. Thanks !
Dont be depressed buddy! I know its an aweful long time but hopefully soon things will turn good for you. You mentioned that it was a renewal case. When was your H1B issued initially?
2010 false if Cliff Lee signs
crazyghoda
06-18 09:43 AM
Hilarious!!! :D:D:D
On a more practical note, I would lawyer up, collect evidence, spin up a multi-million dollar lawsuit, and use settlement money to sip MaiTai on some beach in Lanai, while the harasser gets to suck on cock-meat sandwiches in the nearest penitentiary.
C'mon grow a penis!
On a more practical note, I would lawyer up, collect evidence, spin up a multi-million dollar lawsuit, and use settlement money to sip MaiTai on some beach in Lanai, while the harasser gets to suck on cock-meat sandwiches in the nearest penitentiary.
C'mon grow a penis!
more...
akred
01-27 07:58 PM
Obviously it must be an attempt to protect India from being taken over by Hong Kong ;)
You got that right. Hong Kong is part of China.
You got that right. Hong Kong is part of China.
hair Cliff Lee to the Yankees in
eb_retrogession
01-31 04:00 PM
http://www.rand.org/pubs/working_papers/2005/RAND_WR321.pdf
more...
n_2006
11-20 07:43 PM
How come others are stupid and you are not? They did the same thing what you did. They also thought they can make some money by selling their house in few years. They are stupid because they took ARM loans? Or foreclosed before you? Did you thought about consequences before buying the house?
Yep. You are wise. All others are stupid.
Thanks for the feedback so far from people on this group.
Answering to the question about making bad decision and having a good job..well it is not my bad decision that has brought down the whole market but the banks and stupid people who took loan and didnt knew the consequences of ARM loans and then started filing for foreclosure.. because of those foreclosures the property rates have went down and i cannot get what i paid for the house.
if this whole mess was not there then anyone can find a good job and sell his house, if not profit then atleast with no loss..
i hope u got my point..
Yep. You are wise. All others are stupid.
Thanks for the feedback so far from people on this group.
Answering to the question about making bad decision and having a good job..well it is not my bad decision that has brought down the whole market but the banks and stupid people who took loan and didnt knew the consequences of ARM loans and then started filing for foreclosure.. because of those foreclosures the property rates have went down and i cannot get what i paid for the house.
if this whole mess was not there then anyone can find a good job and sell his house, if not profit then atleast with no loss..
i hope u got my point..
hot obtaining Cliff Lee late
akred
01-24 09:28 PM
Indians do not need a visa to go to Hong Kong also and these days Singapore for those in transit (upto 96 hrs).
And Mauritius for visits upto 15 days.
And Mauritius for visits upto 15 days.
more...
house A Cliff Lee sign
santb1975
01-14 10:26 PM
We need people like you
Thanks! I am in Virginia.
Thanks to needhelp for the reference.
Is it advisable to include a reference to the Ombudsman report in the letter to the President? I am talking about the earlier mentioned reference on page 33 stating that "since 1994 there have been over 218,000 un-recaptured employment-based visas lost due to underutilization of the employment-based visas."
Thanks! I am in Virginia.
Thanks to needhelp for the reference.
Is it advisable to include a reference to the Ombudsman report in the letter to the President? I am talking about the earlier mentioned reference on page 33 stating that "since 1994 there have been over 218,000 un-recaptured employment-based visas lost due to underutilization of the employment-based visas."
tattoo Cliff Lee could win the World
baburob2
01-07 04:46 PM
Here is a summary of the bills, their bill numbers and the Sections:
Sen. Chuck Hagel's Bill (Section 202 of S. 1918)
-High-tech workers who have worked in the U.S. for 3 years would be allowed to adjust to permanent resident status without regard to the annual employment-based immigrant visa cap of 140,000.
-The spouses and children of immigrant workers would also be allowed to adjust status without regard to this cap.
McCain/Kennedy Bill (Sections 601 and 602 of S. 1033)
-Increases quota on EB immigrants to 290,000 to alleviate retrogression
-Recapture unused visas between 2001 and 2005
-Increase the per country limit from 7% to 10%
Cornyn/Kyle Bill (Sections 1001 and 1002 of S. 1438)
-Recapture of the unused visas between 2001 through 2005
-Removal of diversity visa and reallocation of these. Since this is mentioned under EB, the implication seems to be reallocation to EB but am not sure.
-Increase of the country limit from 7% to 10%
It is understood that there would be a merging of these to make the final comprehensive immigration bill
Added to the above Senator Arlen Specter's bill is a good bill:
Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) Introduces Largest Immigration Increase in U.S. History
Printer-Friendly Version
Send this article to a friend!
Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) needed the assistance of the White House in early 2005 to overcome opposition within his own party to his chairmanship. In late November, Specter repaid the Bush Administration by unveiling draft legislation that would bring about a massive increase in government- mandated immigration to the U.S.
President Bush, in his immigration address on November 28, pledged to work for an increase in the number of green cards issued each year and stated his intent to work with Sen. Specter to bring it about. Specter�s draft legislation would send government mandated immigration levels into the 2 million-a-year range.
Under Specter�s draft legislation, the cap on family-preference immigration would be increased by 254,000 visas annually and hundreds of thousands of additional relatives would be exempted from annual limits. In addition, Specter proposes raising the cap on employment-based immigration by 150,000 a year, and allocating any unused visas to other preference categories.
If enacted, Specter�s legislation would mandate the largest increase in immigration in this nation�s history. Moreover, according to FAIR�s analysis, such legislation would fuel the demand for still higher levels of immigration as more extended family members line up to follow an ever-growing number of immigrants streaming into our country.
1/06
Sen. Chuck Hagel's Bill (Section 202 of S. 1918)
-High-tech workers who have worked in the U.S. for 3 years would be allowed to adjust to permanent resident status without regard to the annual employment-based immigrant visa cap of 140,000.
-The spouses and children of immigrant workers would also be allowed to adjust status without regard to this cap.
McCain/Kennedy Bill (Sections 601 and 602 of S. 1033)
-Increases quota on EB immigrants to 290,000 to alleviate retrogression
-Recapture unused visas between 2001 and 2005
-Increase the per country limit from 7% to 10%
Cornyn/Kyle Bill (Sections 1001 and 1002 of S. 1438)
-Recapture of the unused visas between 2001 through 2005
-Removal of diversity visa and reallocation of these. Since this is mentioned under EB, the implication seems to be reallocation to EB but am not sure.
-Increase of the country limit from 7% to 10%
It is understood that there would be a merging of these to make the final comprehensive immigration bill
Added to the above Senator Arlen Specter's bill is a good bill:
Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) Introduces Largest Immigration Increase in U.S. History
Printer-Friendly Version
Send this article to a friend!
Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) needed the assistance of the White House in early 2005 to overcome opposition within his own party to his chairmanship. In late November, Specter repaid the Bush Administration by unveiling draft legislation that would bring about a massive increase in government- mandated immigration to the U.S.
President Bush, in his immigration address on November 28, pledged to work for an increase in the number of green cards issued each year and stated his intent to work with Sen. Specter to bring it about. Specter�s draft legislation would send government mandated immigration levels into the 2 million-a-year range.
Under Specter�s draft legislation, the cap on family-preference immigration would be increased by 254,000 visas annually and hundreds of thousands of additional relatives would be exempted from annual limits. In addition, Specter proposes raising the cap on employment-based immigration by 150,000 a year, and allocating any unused visas to other preference categories.
If enacted, Specter�s legislation would mandate the largest increase in immigration in this nation�s history. Moreover, according to FAIR�s analysis, such legislation would fuel the demand for still higher levels of immigration as more extended family members line up to follow an ever-growing number of immigrants streaming into our country.
1/06
more...
pictures Cliff Lee Cliff Lee #31 of the
syzygy
06-29 04:27 PM
This is height of torture and inhumna treatment in world's most advanced country. On top of it, it is torture of most educate class Wow !
This is so ridiculous....these OH Law Firm lawyers have to be kidding! Who postpones/suspends work based on rumors? I would get fired from my job if I stopped coding just because there was a rumor that the release date was being postponed!!!!
Thanks,
Jayant
This is so ridiculous....these OH Law Firm lawyers have to be kidding! Who postpones/suspends work based on rumors? I would get fired from my job if I stopped coding just because there was a rumor that the release date was being postponed!!!!
Thanks,
Jayant
dresses Is Cliff Lee a cheater?
buddyinsd
09-15 12:23 PM
You named a few: Pappu, Aman, Jay. Who are these guys?
Other than Pappu I dont see the other two or any others actively participating. Who are they and where are they?
Thanks folks for your wishes. I had not been active on the volunteering side due to multiple reasons and other day to day challenges and career.
I agree with a lot of people in the community that it is a challenge to balance a challenging personal life, especially in a country like America where regular day to day life poses many challenges.
In the green card process, the challenge is just not about one needing a job to fulfill day to day needs but to secure a future for him/her and family.
A lot of people I have come across through IV have been absolutely amazing in stepping up and doing what they do and this platform provided by IV (Aman, Pappu, Jay etc..) has been a blessing for all of us.
I have written to IV core that I will continue to support IV and its activities.
Other than Pappu I dont see the other two or any others actively participating. Who are they and where are they?
Thanks folks for your wishes. I had not been active on the volunteering side due to multiple reasons and other day to day challenges and career.
I agree with a lot of people in the community that it is a challenge to balance a challenging personal life, especially in a country like America where regular day to day life poses many challenges.
In the green card process, the challenge is just not about one needing a job to fulfill day to day needs but to secure a future for him/her and family.
A lot of people I have come across through IV have been absolutely amazing in stepping up and doing what they do and this platform provided by IV (Aman, Pappu, Jay etc..) has been a blessing for all of us.
I have written to IV core that I will continue to support IV and its activities.
more...
makeup Will Cliff choose yanks over
trueguy
08-22 11:47 AM
lets ignore all the negative comments in this thread and stay focused.
Lets start with letter campaign and see what happens when new year starts. Does somebody has a letter drafted and ready to send out?
Thanks.
Lets start with letter campaign and see what happens when new year starts. Does somebody has a letter drafted and ready to send out?
Thanks.
girlfriend Cliff Lee laughing Yankees
sgsg
01-22 12:04 PM
I tried calling KCC and they denied to provide any information on PIMS.
My H1B was approved in Mar 2007 for 7th year extension. I also had my H1 transfer on May 2005.
My H1B was approved in Mar 2007 for 7th year extension. I also had my H1 transfer on May 2005.
hairstyles Cliff Lee shuns the Yankees in
CADude
09-21 01:31 PM
See if you can find the director GERALD HEINAUER @ NSC or any senior executive. I will give a call and demand answers.
Not sure which one?
Barrett, Joe & Nicky
8011 South St
Lincoln, NE 68506-6535
(402) 486-0720
Barrett, Joel
6142 NW Seventh St
Lincoln, NE 68521-3757
(402) 476-9775
Not sure which one?
Barrett, Joe & Nicky
8011 South St
Lincoln, NE 68506-6535
(402) 486-0720
Barrett, Joel
6142 NW Seventh St
Lincoln, NE 68521-3757
(402) 476-9775
feedfront
09-14 12:06 PM
Hi,
Any one received any RFE recently on been current on the month of Sep. please share iit. I got my status update with RFE :(
Thanks
onemorecame
I've been current since July, 2010 and got RFE on Sept 10, 2010. I don't have letter with me as yet to know about RFE.
Before REF, I waited for few weeks then tried followings:
1) Took infopass : Officer sent email to expedite.
2) Wrote to Senator: got reply they would get reply in 60-90 days
3) Sent an email via attorney to TSC: got automated response.
Then I got RFE after about 2-3 weeks of these attempts.
Any one received any RFE recently on been current on the month of Sep. please share iit. I got my status update with RFE :(
Thanks
onemorecame
I've been current since July, 2010 and got RFE on Sept 10, 2010. I don't have letter with me as yet to know about RFE.
Before REF, I waited for few weeks then tried followings:
1) Took infopass : Officer sent email to expedite.
2) Wrote to Senator: got reply they would get reply in 60-90 days
3) Sent an email via attorney to TSC: got automated response.
Then I got RFE after about 2-3 weeks of these attempts.
GC_2008
07-09 09:39 PM
I can't believe your statements. I think we all die in battle field together if all think like you. Of course we all have to be careful and be smart on our actions, but please do not embarrass yourself...
